00 Rumor Mill: Lyle x Anew, not according to keikaku
[EDIT] Time from posting to someone starting a shitstorm with it on /m/: 79 minutes.
[EDIT II] Too small to bother making a new post about it, spoiler guy showed up again today. Skimmed through it during linguistics class, he mentions something about Bushido not dying again thanks to Setsuna and Regene shooting Ribbons between the eyes (that’s what it sounded like to me). I might give it a more proper look in a bit, but it didn’t seem to have a whole lot of new stuff (a number of the posts appeared to just be banter–2cher: Won’t you just die already? spoiler guy: how meannn~/etc) I think there was also something about Wang again, and if she’d gotten the information to CB and it sounded like he dodged the question, and there was something about how they’ll retake Veda, which I still can’t make much sense of (he’s been mentioning a lot of the same things in reference to taking back Veda lately but I still haven’t figured it out).
[EDIT III] Another small thing. This is official news. There’s a new trading card set out. The interesting thing being that Kouga Yun will be doing three special cards of “Setsuna and Ribbons” “Tieria and Regene” and “Mister Bushido and Gra…”
[EDIT IV] FUCK YEAH MADE #83 BLOG OF THE DAY WITH THIS SHIT!
Thanks to ginaweegs for digging up the 2ch posts in question. Not sure how reliable the information is, it is 2ch after all, but it seems pretty reasonable. Perhaps we’ll get the full story in the S2 Roman Album, if/when that comes out.
通常の名无しさんの３倍：2009/01/23(金) 18:34:16 ID:???
So, it seems Lyle and Anew’s relationship was the result of sponsor pressure… I can’t help but feel disappointed. Mizushima and Kuroda, according to what the spoiler guys said, had initially planned on a spy battle [between them]. Even if the audience didn’t like it, the scenario wouldn’t have changed, but they’re weak against the sponsors. It’s a weakness of the industry as a whole though, right?通常の名无しさんの３倍：2009/01/23(金) 19:01:31 ID:???
The so-called scenario change is more a course change, don’t you think? That’s why the fact of the matter is that the schedule will be cheapened after all. The sponsors increased their interest in the Gundam franchise with Seed and they don’t want it to shrink.* And so that’s why if they included a “blighted adult love,” they’d get people like housewives to watch it with their daughters and children, so they kept pushing for it. As a result, even if it wrecks the characters and the story they’re doing it, and it even seems like they’re planning to cover it in the novels and supplementary manga in Gundam Ace.通常の名无しさんの３倍：2009/01/23(金) 20:37:45 ID:???
The above idea of, falling in love with an outsider [is what they wanted, because] Neil and Tieria’s relationship in the first season caught their eye. That’s what they were after, so naturally they they ordered that the story be changed to include a romance angle this time. But, Neil and Tieria['s story/relationship] also had a doll-who-becomes-human element to it, and so as far as deep love is concerned, the plan for an adult-love with Lyle** has no such connection so it’s rather shallow…*this is a kind of liberal handling of this sentence, I couldn’t think of how to phrase it well in English, assuming I’m even reading it right, “interest” here is more like “financial interest”/they own more of the franchise now
**says ラア I’m assuming it’s a typo for ライル or something like that though.
Moon after the break:
Original (well, sorta, the one ginaweegs posted had some simplified Chinese characters in it, I just went through and replaced them with the proper kanji–as far as I know this isn’t an uncommon problem when Japanese text is posted on Chinese forums, so I wouldn’t take that as an indication of being fake posts):
通常の名无しさんの３倍：2009/01/23(金) 18:34:16 ID:??? ライルとアニューの絡みはスポンサーゴリ押しで突然决まったからなぁ…叩かれても仕方ない 水黒は当初、バレしてる奴らが话してた通りにスパイ合戦を予定してたんだよ 視聴者には叩かれても脚本は変えないが、スポンサーには弱い これは業界全体の弱さなんだけどな
通常の名无しさんの３倍：2009/01/23(金) 19:01:31 ID:??? 脚本は変更というか軌道修正だな だからスケジュールが詰まりやすくなるのも事実 スポンサー側は種で広がったガンダムという作品の購買層を狭めたくないんだよ だから『大人の悲恋』をやったら、大きいお姉さん方や子供と一緒に見てる主婦なんかも獲得できると踏んで押した 結果、キャラ破綻とストーリー破綻を起こしてるがそこは小説とダムAの補完漫画でカバーするつもりみたいだ
通常の名无しさんの３倍：2009/01/23(金) 20:37:45 ID:??? 人外と恋爱になるとそこは一期のニールとティエリアの交流に目をつけた上の意向 あれだけ騒がれたからな、そりゃ今度は設定を曲げてまで恋愛しろと注文をつけて当然 ただ、ニールとティエリアは人形が人間の心を持つまでの経緯であって親愛なのに対し、ラアは大人の恋爱で結ばれないのを想定した薄いものだから…
>The above idea of, falling in love with an outsider [is what they wanted, because] Neil and Tieria’s relationship in the first season caught their eye. That’s what they were after, so naturally they they ordered that the story be changed to include a romance angle this time.>
If that is the case,don’t kill Neil in S1!
Continue the NeilTieria dynamics in Season 2!
Are the sponsors blind?Are they stupid? Did they know NeilXTieria is the most popular pairing in Gundam 00??!!(With over 100 circles & counting,one of the top ten rankings in Anime Coupling(recent comiket statistics)
Seriously if they want to earn $,they might as well do a continuation of NeilTieria instead of the crappy shit lyleanew romance.
*pissed off*
>if it wrecks the characters and the story they’re doing it, and it even seems like they’re planning to cover it in the novels and supplementary manga in Gundam Ace.>
I swear,sales gonna drop if they seriously want to produce this shit…..
*raging*
@tulix: Yeah, they knew it was popular so they wanted to duplicate it with Lyle x Anew. Except they obviously missed the most important part of the Tieria -> Neil thing, Tieria “becoming human” which they seem to have just ignored with the Anew thing. Meh… I’m just writing off the subplot as an unfortunate tragedy of commercial media. It’s just something you have to accept with this kind of show.
I don’t like the Neil x Tieria idea, Gundam 00 isn’t a shounen-ai show. I want to see Neil as a man (not a gay) and Tieria falls in love with a girl and become more human. I’m glad that they cut that couple off, Neil x Feldt sounds more good for me.
Mizusawa is breaking Lyle x Anew to have his revenge on the sponsors. Poor the Dylandy brothers to meet tragic endings.
Well, I’m surprised. Not. The most upsetting thing about this fucking ordeal is that they wasted a potential interesting character in Anew by making her a fucking yandere waifu in a horrible developed “romance” only to later stuff her in the fridge. Bullshit.
And I love fanboy mentality (in regards to Sec’s comment): pedophilia is ok but homosexuality is icky.
Oh, never change, retards.
“Neil and Tieria’s relationship in the first season”
I believed it until I read that.
@Nzykmulk: “Relationship” isn’t explicitly “romantic relationship” in English (and it’s definitely not in this case since the Japanese doesn’t imply that, it was just the best way I could think to phrase it English). Neil had a relationship with all the Meisters.
I don’t see how that makes it unbelievable, it’s one of the most popular elements from S1 after all.
@Nzykmulk: Wait. There IS a relationship just not a romance one. As opposed to LylexAnew, “[...] they ordered that the story be changed to include a romance angle this time.”
This rumor sounds very plausible. But if they were really aiming to mirror anything from Neil and Tieria’s subplot they’re failing hard…
“And so that’s why if they included a “blighted adult love,” they’d get people like housewives to watch it with their daughters and children, so they kept pushing for it.”
goodness no wonder Marie and Anew seem like the most perfect waifus ever.
darn, i really wanted to see some spy vs. spy action
The whole thing about the love story with Anew not being in the original plan was mentioned in a couple of Japanese blogs last week, and how it was “heavily suggested” to Kuroda in order to include it, so I can’t say I’m completely surprised.
I don’t think it’s something that would ruin the show, anyway.
@citrinitas668:
“Neil had a relationship with all the Meisters.”
I know, but his relationship with Tieria was never particularly relevant. Certainly, Neil ended up making a big impact on Tieria’s life after he risked his life to save him, but that’s it. It wasn’t as if, through interactions between them throughout the entire first season Tieria changed. It all came down to 1 or 2 scenes. Additionally, Neil had the same (if not higher) impact on Setsuna. This is why I’m considering it fake.
All the same, NeilxTieria (romantic or not) did become quite popular amongst the fans; so… what do I know? Anyway, as it was already mentioned, Lyle’s and Anew’s relationship doesn’t mirror that of Neil and Tieria in any way.
Lyle’s and Anew’s relationship certainly came out of the blue, and it’s barely received any development, but the hints for it has been there since the very beginning of this season. It’s in the first ED (unless those arms were supposed to be someone else’s). My take on this was the romance between them was always supposed to be there, but there’d be additional elements to their sub-plot; for example, in that scene in the first ED of this season, Lyle is holding a gun, meaning it they probably were going to have a love-hate relationship (perhaps the spy vs. spy that has already been mentioned many times). However, the staff decided to focus on something else, and thus they dropped that.
I suppose we’ll have to wait for that Roman Album.
Do Japanese people seriously take this shit? I mean, if Gundam were an American soap opera minus the mobile suits, this kinda thing would probably cause fans to pitch a shit causing “sponsors” to rethink their meddling. In most cases I guess, not always, but still.
It really pisses me off that people can’t tell a proper story and properly write their characters without some jack-offs that sponsor the show, make the damn toys, or close personal friends/family influencing everything and completely fucking up the story. If it wasn’t for this shit, we might’ve gotten a proper SEED Destiny, Geass, and a bunch of other shit. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
God.
@ Nzykmulk
I actually disagree that Niel’s influence wasn’t that relevant. It was his influence, if anything else, that held CB together and gave them the drive to survive that fateful battle. Plus, it was more than just one or two scenes. You gotta remember his talk on Sumeragi and inidcation of Tieria’s true nature, or the revelation of Setsuna’s terrorist past. I think there’s also a few more but I can’t remember them too clearly. Either way, he affected the thoughts and ideals of both Setsuna and Tieria in a major way, and his memory continues to do so now.
“I know, but his relationship with Tieria was never particularly relevant.”
Lolz, no. Even if you think that they were milking it for fanservice their relationship was fucking relevant. I could go on and on and post a tl;dr type of reply but I’ll keep it simple: without their “irrelevant” relationship there would be no CB anymore. In fact, Tieria probably would’ve joined the other Innovators if it hadn’t been for his relationship with Neil.
> Neil and Tieria’s relationship in the first season caught their eye.
…I hate them now. The sponsors I mean. I hope this stuff isn’t true.
@Random:
“It was his influence, if anything else, that held CB together and gave them the drive to survive that fateful battle.”
I know mate, I’ve never intended to say he wasn’t a relevant character. My point was none of his relationships with any of the characters in the show received a particular focus, like the sort-of-subplot Lyle and Anew are receiving now.
@Desu:
“their relationship was fucking relevant”
What I meant was it didn’t have any particular focus (as in some sort of sub-plot). If you’d have read my post just a bit further you’d have noticed I also said: “Certainly, Neil ended up making a big impact on Tieria’s life after he risked his life to save him”.
What makes this unbelievable for me is that it implies
Neil/Tieria popular => sponsors say: make a Neil/Tieria-ish “blighted adult love” => Kuroda change spy battle plan into romance
when the fujoshi fanbase for BL pair is usually separate with NL pair, and I don’t believe Sunrise is oblivious to that. Look at Code Geass, they KNOW how to pander to fans.
This sounds like that false rumor before episode 13 aired that says “Tieria will die and Anew will continue his role as outsider” that sent people into paranoia two months ago.
In any case, I’m already enjoying Lyle/Anew as it is, but spy x spy sound even hotter and maybe would have meant Katharon being more relevant.
I find the idea of spy vs spy much more interesting(Katharon wouldn’t be forgotten, because now it seems that Lyle never was from Katharon) than romance Neil x Anew(meh).
@furato – I think this set of rumors is quite different from The Tieria dies rumor, in that this tries to explain how management decisions affect the current story which is already happening, while the one Tieria dies rumor is a prediction on the future episodes. Not that I believe this one though (even if it actually looks like what is really happening), I mean, who exactly would admit that their sponsors are strongly affecting their decisions? This is bad for the image of the franchise. Have they revealed before point blank that they are strongly affected by sponsors’ pressure?
@mai: What I’m getting with the “Tieria dies” false rumor was that Anew is suspected to be a repeat of him due to her circumstances and her association with Lockon.
Nobody would ever admit sponsor pressure (except maybe SEED’s Fukuda, I heard he admitted changing something because of gunpla sales?), it’s true. But let’s say Lyle/Anew is really a sponsor-influenced decision, I really don’t think the Sunrise’s marketing would misfire that much regarding the BL/NL demographic.
Plus, one have to start wondering where those mythical sponsors start meddling: Pre-season? Episode 1 before ED3 that has Lyle holding someone’s hand? Episode 11 after Anew’s introduction? Right before episode 14 that has their significant conversation? It even makes more sense to just revive Neil somehow and actually show NeilxTieria as much as a BL pair can be shown on Gundam.
And Gundam will always be marketing-oriented: it maybe why Graham appears 3 seconds every other episode with constant upgrades to his suit without doing anything; it mabe why Ali was given Arche. Why Feldt is rumoured to get a scene with Setsuna and a character CD. To single out this one is not fair, I think.
@furato:
>>Nobody would ever admit sponsor pressure
They do pretty often from what I’ve seen. We got a whole long thing about how Geass got fucked over by Taniguchi in a Roman Album interview. I think it’s pretty common especially when it’s something major that the director was unhappy with. Plus, how better to improve your image with the fans than to say, “Well, it wasn’t my idea to do that, the sponsors made me.” with regard to an unpopular development.
>Plus, one have to start wondering where those mythical sponsors start meddling: Pre-season? Episode 1 before ED3 that has Lyle holding someone’s hand? <
I think the sponsors only start to meddle in the middle of the production…
When the first end came out, the magazines were discussing who is the owner of the hands,and they hint three possibility,Neil,Felt or Tieria.
My guess is that at that time Mizushima had not decided,and that;s where the sponsors finally came in and pressurized to do a romance lyleanew.
@ Nzykmulk
Ah, my bad. You weren’t talking about his influence but the relationships themselves.
@tulix123: Magazines and fans couldn’t have speculated Anew… because she’s not even introduced yet. Even fans were saying “Neil, Feldt, Tieria, Regene, Klaus, Shirin, or new character“. It would be stupid of them to put in that frame without deciding beforehand who the person is, and what kind of dynamics will play between them, as it has significant key elements of hand-holding and gun-pointing.
>>I want to see Neil as a man (not a gay)
Wait, how the hell would being gay make him any less of a man?
Good Lord.
But yes, on topic, this is rather dissapointing that the sponsers had so much of an influence here, if this is true. On a shallow level, Lyle and Anew did kinda seem like them attempting to cash in on Neil and Tieria (with maybe some added Feldt, considering the bridge bunny factor.) but they didn’t seem to realise that it was because they were both solidly developed characters with their own independent plot threads and character flaws which made their interaction enjoyable to watch.
Bah. I said it before, this is a plot thread I don’t really like, there’s plenty of other reasons I’m watching anyway. Let it all come to a head next episode and we can get on with the rest of the series.
SURE IS HOMOPHOBIC IN HERE