Fangirls: the fetishization of homosexuality and “authenticity”
Well, that title sounds far too formal and pretentious for what this post is, but I couldn’t think of anything clever. At any rate, I just wanted to write about something that’s been bugging me for a while about the fangirl community in general. As usual, this is just an unstructured, not really edited, collection of thoughts and not a pointed argument or indictment of anything. This isn’t in response to anything in particular, it’s just been mulling around in the back of my head for a while and I’m bored, so why not. This is all very generalized and obviously doesn’t apply to everyone. And in other things that should be obvious but mentioning it anyway: this is all anecdotal/etc.
So, over the years I’ve noticed a particular tendency among fangirls (I hesitate to call it a trend because it’s entirely possible that this attitude has always been there and I’ve only been deep enough recently to notice it) to basically straight up fetishize any and all gay male relationships. Now, I feel like there’s an important distinction between enjoying depictions of man-on-man relations of a romantic and/or sexual nature and fetishizing homosexuality (for the sake of brevity, for this post let’s just assume “homosexuality” refers specifically to male homosexuality––not that there aren’t ladies who fancy ladies gettin’ it on too, but that’s an entirely different discussion). And moreover the thing being fetishized isn’t the dude-on-dude aspect in and of itself so much as an, ultimately false, sense of authenticity.
More plainly: What is it with fangirls and this hangup about “real gay”? And why is it that everything with a hint of “gay” must be consumed?
False Authenticity
I’m sure anyone who’s spent anytime, even in passing, in BL (let’s just use BL as shorthand for “dude-on-dude romantic/sexual fantasy fiction made by ladies for ladies” from now on) related communities has probably seen people tossing around phrases like, “don’t use the words ‘seme’ and ‘uke’ because real gay couples aren’t broken down into those categories!” and “omg I can’t believe they left out the lubing up stage again! That’s not how gay sex works!” as if it was part of some sort of calculated PR campaign to make sure The Gays know fangirls are well informed™ about gay issues and don’t have any illusions about how unrealistic BL is. And by the same token we have fanfic writers engaging in hot debates about using only the most technically correct jargon when talking about buttsex, because describing the prostate except explicitly as a “gland” is incorrect and unrealistic.
It’s one thing to prefer romance/porn that’s more on the realistic side, but I feel like this weird, mandated pretense of realism is something else entirely. Because, ultimately it’s not about achieving “realism” so much as adding prescribed touches of authenticity to what ultimately amounts to fap material (you know, a sexual fantasy), but to what end? I don’t exactly have an answer, but I’ve got some vague ideas. I definitely feel like part of it is a weird attempt at uh… “political correctness”? for lack of a better term. But there definitely seems to be an element of general nerdsperg in it too––you know, in much the same way you’ll see the SF nerds going “Excuse me, his name isn’t ‘Doctor Who.’ It’s just ‘Doctor.’ We don’t actually know his name. Duh.”
There’s probably more to it than that, but I think both elements are certainly present and they’re both far from unproblematic. The “political correctness” element (ex: “don’t use the words ‘seme’ and ‘uke’ because real gay couples aren’t broken down into those categories!”) is really weirdly counterproductive imo. On one hand, the whole point of those efforts seem to be to point out the absurdity and lack of realism of BL (totally founded, objectively speaking) but at the same time it fosters this weird meta environment of “authenticity” that ends up blurring the lines between fantasy (i.e. porn) and reality (i.e. actual gay people––key word: people) in discussion. BL is, fundamentally, fantasy. It’s largely constructed around ludicrous stereotypes and cliches that bear little resemblance to real life. So, why is there this need to discuss ludicrous fantasy in “real” terms? The vast majority of BL manga is constructed around the fictional concepts of “seme” and “uke” (I’m not an expert on 3D gay porn but I’m p. sure it uses similar distinctions) so why the need to act like they don’t exist? Not that we shouldn’t critique BL because it’s “just porn,” but I think it is problematic to discuss the usually cliched and stereotyped as hell characters in your average BL in “real” terms. In more concrete terms, I guess I mean like: So <insert generic porny BL oneshot> you just read? Yeah one dude is the seme and one dude is the uke. Why? Because those are the concepts around which that story was constructed (like, chances are that story was probably pitched to the magazine with those explicit terms). So isn’t it a little weird to be discussing those characters like they deserve respect like real people?
The nerd spergular side of things is more an issue of construction than consumption. Of course, people still use these arbitrary “authenticity” standards to discuss and judge the works they consume, but it’s more visible in the generation side of things. Were you to check out the work of a long-time BL fanfic writer, I’m positive you’ll find it peppered with “authenticity tokens” (ex. overly precise anatomical language, bordering on medical-terminology at times; any sex act will follow the prescribed fangirl “authentic” pattern with very prominent, specific details about things like lube and preparation––it’s about specificity and “accuracy” not about sexiness in these details and it seems to go far beyond verisimilitude). As with most nerd sperg it’s basically a dick measuring contest. It seems like new “tokens” get introduced as a means to one-up each other on authenticity until they become standard currency. Readers compliment writers on how authentic and realistic the work is despite the fact that the vast majority of them have probably never gotten anywhere near a dude’s butt, let alone participated in anal sex OR you know, been a man engaged in dude-on-dude butt love (I don’t mean that to be virgin-shaming or whatever, just that, the vast majority of people participating in this sub-sub culture are thoroughly and completely disconnected from the “reality” that it vaguely, at best, resembles).
Anyway, I think the most problematic aspect of the nerd sperg is probably that those who trade in these “authenticity tokens” become sort of self-proclaimed experts on gay dudes and gay relationships and gay sex even though they’re so far removed from the reality of it. Further, it codifies a rather warped and, well, spergular, idea of what “real” gay men are like (and of course the sperging itself is a kind of objectification, but I just sorta assume that goes without saying). And then it seems to lead occasionally into this weird objectification of real gay men (not because they’re hot, but expressly because they’re gay).
At any rate, for whatever reason it occurs exactly, many fangirls seem to have a fixation on “authenticity” even if this idea of authenticity is largely just a heavily codified set of rules, tropes and stereotypes that are perhaps just as ludicrous (if not moreso for their claim to reality) as the cliches and stereotypes in the BL they were born in reaction to. Which brings me to the next half of this discussion:
Fetishizing Homosexuality
So, to be perfectly clear, again, there’s a distinct difference between liking to watch two dudes boinking and the fangirl fetishization of all things gay. The more I think about it, it’s reminding me more of weeabooism’s relationship with Japan. The weeaboo has a heavily distorted image of Japan and the Japanese language. She or he tries to utilize “authentic” elements of the culture/language in their own creative endeavors, but ultimately those tokens of authenticity are only tenuously related to the source and in a way become a code of their own. The weeaboo’s quest for authenticity through these tokens leads to a sort of inability to distinguish between reality and their code of authenticity. I hesitate to make the comparison between the weeaboo’s deep seated desire to actually be Japanese (often out of a feeling of displacement in their native culture), though I’m sure there’s an element of that among fangirls as well though that sense of displacement is probably more related to The Patriarchy than the standard weeaboo I-don’t-have-any-friends/I-hate-America thing––at any rate, I don’t want to make that jump there because, while there are certainly fangirls out there who proclaim their desire to be gay men or proclaim that they are trans gay men (not to imply that they’re necessarily illegitimate), it seems like a less common, or at least less overt, phenomenon in this group and sexual identity stuff is complicated.
Anyway, like I was saying, the fangirl fetishizes gay men in the same way the weeaboo fetishizes Japan. I’m seeing more people these days (again this is probably less of a trend and more of an exposure thing) who will a) only watch a show (/otherwise consume a piece of media, but most of my experience here is with anime/TV) if there are gay elements or hints of homosexuality (ex. “Does this show have any homolust in it?” “No, not really.” “Aw, I guess I won’t be watching it.”) and/or b) will be compelled to watch something precisely because it has a gay character/couple in it (ex. “Hey you should watch this thing it’s good.” “Nah, I hate that shit.” “There’s a gay dude in it.” “Sold!”––1 month later: 300,000 words of fanfiction and counting). Then there’s, of course, the ever present authenticity element. In this case media is arbitrarily given more attention/acclaim for being more “realistic” even though it’s generally quite the opposite (how many fangirls have you seen gushing about how realistically and well Wandering Son handled LBGT issues vs. No. 6? Yeah). At any rate, I guess if we simplify it down to the analogy fangirl:gay dudes::weeaboo:Japanese shit the media selectivity thing makes sense (swap “gay dude” and “homolust” for something Japan related).
I guess one of the things I don’t really understand is the “I’m only watching this show for the homolust” phenomenon. Doubly so with merely “slashy” shows. Just, why? If you want homo romance there’s a shitton of actual BL out there. Just to be clear I’m not wut-ing at like BL fan stuff in general, it’s just like, I don’t understand why people actively seek out media to stan that they do not enjoy at all save for some gay hints about some usually minor characters. Writing BL fanfic about your favorite characters from your favorite show? Makes sense. Begrudgingly deciding to watch (by one’s own admission) boring, generic as hell shonen action show #8734 because it has some homolusty overtones? Yeah, idgi. Could it just be a factor of people newer to the animes who don’t know where to get what they’re looking for (I’m looking at you, No. 6 fans who keep saying that No. 6 is in any way unique for having BL elements in a not explicitly BL series)? Is it a shame thing? (like, a need to couch BL stuff in a “legitimate” show as an excuse) Or something else entirely?
Conclusions?
Like I said, I don’t really have a particular point or a conclusion to make, just that there are some really kinda weird (imo) and kind of problematic (in the that’s-kinda-sexist/racist sense, but idk what you call it when it’s about sexuality, you know what I mean) aspects to some subsets of the whole BL thing (not that the rest of BL isn’t problematic in it’s own way) that are probably worth talking about. lol, anecdotes isn’t really the place to start insofar as declaring something “Offensive” (and I won’t even pretend to be thoroughly informed on all the related subject matter) so I’m not trying to make any kind of authoritative statement about it, just, you know, some of this seems potentially kind of problematic and it’d be interesting to discuss further. There doesn’t seem to be much critical discourse on the fandom in the anime/Japan arena (though I guess most of this really isn’t exclusive to anime) that like American comics seems to have, though (and most of that seems exclusively focused on male fans). Annnd train of thought status: lost. Anyhow,
tl;dr fangirls, discuss?
Coincidentally, the topic of problematic seme/uke dynamics (and equally problematic insistence that All Must Be Equal and Switching is the Golden Rule) came up among my friends the other day.
I’ve always made the (generalized and likely shallow) assumption that most fangirls with perpetual slash-tinted goggles are teenagers dealing with hormones, who for some reason avoid het pairings (because het sex is either gross or uninteresting–which is possibly indicative of all kinds of troubling perceptions regarding female sexuality).
I dislike the frequent claims and compliments that portrayals in fiction are “realistic” in general, since it implies an objective definition of what is “real” and factual and concrete. When actually, such claims mean that something is “believable” within an individual’s scope of perception, significantly subjective, and in some cases downright inaccurate. Admittedly, “realistic” sounds better than “believable” since it implies that knowledge and/or authority over what is real/correct.
But anyway, I agree there’s a lot that can be discussed. I’m not sure how much (scholarly) material (in English) there is specifically addressing anime or Asian media/culture (found a few articles while throwing together a mostly bullshit last-presentation-ever project for a Sexuality class my senior year, though I didn’t look very hard), but I’ve seen quite a bit of discussion and meta within fandom itself.
I think all the scholarly material (admittedly not very much) I’ve seen in English about BL (well, more shounen-ai since the like, 2 pieces I’ve seen were about 70s manga) was written by some straight dude in the 90s who made a lot of really kind of hilarious assumptions about why women enjoy dude-on-dude romance (as I recall one paper’s conclusion was that the boys in BL manga look so effeminate because it’s really a way for girls to embrace their inner lesbian in a safe way? or something like that).
I know of no less than 3 people who were writing senior theses about fanfiction or some element of fandom at my university while I was there, but I’m pretty sure that was all Buffy related. I’ve got a few Japanese books on fujoshi culture but they’re all pretty general from what I’ve gathered (read reviews before I bought them, haven’t actually read them yet) and from what I understand fujoshi culture’s a whole different can of worms.
I’m not sure if you’re aware of it, but there’s an entire book collecting essays that deal with BL and its fandom, called “Boys’ love manga : essays on the sexual ambiguity and cross-cultural fandom of the genre.” I haven’t read all of it, but what I did read touched upon the fetishization a little bit. You might find that an interesting read.
As a gay woman, this is something that actually bothers me a lot about BL fandom. In discussions like this, I think it’s worthwhile to separate the fandom for BL manga and other media that has implied or incidental instances of male homosexuality. With BL manga, it’s mainly porn – it’s intended for female viewers to get off on. And in a way, that’s good because it’s empowering women by allowing them to become more expressive of their own sexuality (especially in cultures that demonize woman’s sexuality or only allow limited expressions of it). So yeah, it is meant to be fantasy, and Western fangirls trying to discuss it in realist terms definitely is weird, as well as showing a vital misunderstanding of how it functions.
I find things become different when fans are reacting to “homolust” in something that is not sexuality-focused. It’s here where the fact that straight fangirls make a fetish of homosexuality really shows itself. In my opinion it’s often a problem of heteronormativity. Straight fangirls (and fanboys) will obsess over a character because of their sexuality, and in doing so /reduce/ them to that sexuality until that character is no longer being viewed as a person. The usual rebuttal to this is, “it’s a character, so who is it hurting?” Well, it hurts a ton of people daily when the attitude is carried over into real life and real people (and believe me, it is – I’ve experienced it for years). Personally, I see the obsession over authenticity to be a symptom of this too, as well as just a… ‘quirk’ of fandom communities, I guess.
HOWEVER, I think it’s important to understand that not all people who watch something for its queer elements are fetishizing them, since there’s a bunch of them who are queer themselves. Personally, I’m much more inclined to watch something if there’s a queer character who’s portrayed decently, because I AM queer and seeing people like me in media, whether male or female, is often encouraging. When you’ve grown up with next to no fictional role models who have experienced the same struggles as you, you really do tend to cling to what you have. And I am one of the people who praised No.6 for including gay kisses and not making a huge deal out of them – I’m well-versed enough in queer media to know it’s not revolutionary, but there’s such few stories where that happens that I think all of them deserve a positive mention.
Lastly, I admit that I find it interesting you now seem to care about the marginalization of queer people in fandom, since the last time this came up you still defended your use of homophobic slurs. I am glad you wrote this, though, since it’s something I’ve been noticing for a long while but am still unsure of how exactly to address, as you can probably tell by this convoluted comment.
I’ve never heard of that book, but I’ll look into it, sounds interesting. I’ve got a couple Japanese books on fujoshi that I’ve been meaning to read, but the culture over there seems to be totally different, but then again I’ve never been that deep into fujoshi culture so maybe this reactionary element exists there too.
> I think it’s worthwhile to separate the fandom for BL manga and other media that has implied or incidental instances of male homosexuality.
Yeah, I think that’s an excellent point. Though I do think there’s a lot of crossover in terms of attitudes in the fandom and how both types of material are treated which makes it kind of difficult to separate them fully. I feel like, frequently, the fandom tries to treat both porn and serious drama in the same way (treating both either overly seriously or like fap material) and that fuzzy line might be contributing to this phenomenon.
>HOWEVER, I think it’s important to understand that not all people who watch something for its queer elements are fetishizing them, since there’s a bunch of them who are queer themselves.
I totally recognize that. I really wasn’t trying to imply that everyone interested in series for their queer elements is a creepy fangirl. I probably should have acknowledged that element of the fandom in the post.
> And I am one of the people who praised No.6 for including gay kisses and not making a huge deal out of them – I’m well-versed enough in queer media to know it’s not revolutionary, but there’s such few stories where that happens that I think all of them deserve a positive mention.
Yeah, there’s definitely nothing wrong with that. I probably shouldn’t be singling out No. 6 so much, especially considering that I quit part way through. It’s just, I kept seeing people talking about the series one one hand as dumb fap material (i.e. that there is nothing redeeming about the series other than the fact that it’s BL-y) and on the other as some sort of serious treatment of LBGT romance, sometimes from the same person in nearly the same sentence and I’m still a little irked about the whole thing. From what I did see and read of the series I do think the way it treats the queer elements in a more normalized, matter-of-fact way is a good thing, but at the same time––well, I could probably write a whole other 2000+ word post about my issues with No. 6 and the way the vast majority of the fandom reacted to it, so I’ll just leave it there.
>Lastly, I admit that I find it interesting you now seem to care about the marginalization of queer people in fandom, since the last time this came up you still defended your use of homophobic slurs.
Yeah that’s… complicated. “Faggot” is certainly far far far from unproblematic. I don’t really think my using the word is defensible, but at the same time it’s part of the subculture I belong to. On one hand I think there’s something genuinely interesting and maybe even kind of good about the way the word’s been appropriated by 4chan, but I’m also aware that I’m not part of the group who’s been marginalized and hurt by the word so I probably don’t have the “right” to do that (and I don’t feel like that notion itself is totally unproblematic, but maybe I just don’t fully understand it yet, idk, that’s an even further tangent). I think with anything like that context still is important, but that doesn’t make it beyond reproach or even okay necessarily.
At any rate, I’ve had a lot of straight, (white) female friends who participate in this fetishization of gay men. It’s always bugged me on a gut level, but I’ve been reading a lot of uh… feminist/antiracist/anti-treating-people-like-shit (I really need to figure out the generic word for this…) pop culture blogs lately and then this post happened (pretty clear that I have nfc what I’m doing writing about this shit, lol).
This made me think; so I’m going to add my thoughts as a lesbian.
‘Fag’ and ‘faggot’ are totally acceptable pieces of internet vernacular. I don’t know anyone who has bothered to do their research and still been offended by it.
The only time I would ever be bothered by aforementioned ‘fetishisation’ of homosexuality (and let’s face it: this is normalised when it comes to lesbians, because men often comment that they enjoy the idea; it’s only shocking because it is male-focused, and that in itself bears thinking about. After all, is this not limiting women and holding an extremely unfair double standard?) if it was in real life, full on, “SO KAWAII OMG A REAL GEY *glomp* xD!” fangasm. In other words: I’d cringe at this the same as I would cringe at any other nerdy, otaku-like subculture.
And finally, the idea of ‘realistic’ descriptions may simply be a way to overcome the sense of writing/drawing being uncomfortable to read. If it’s rainbows and roses and plenty of foreplay, more empathic readers are less likely to lose the mood. Or, it could also simply be a particular fetish, like detailed description of sexy clothes. It doesn’t necessarily have to be anything more than that at all.
“‘Fag’ and ‘faggot’ are totally acceptable pieces of internet vernacular.”
Who are you to say they are? Your being a lesbian essentially invalidates your right to judge in on its validity by virtue of not being the target group.
“I don’t know anyone who has bothered to do their research and still been offended by it.”
Haha, that is a very naive statement.
You should read the No. 6 novels that have been translated to English. I read them and then realized the anime was a jumbled mess because they left out key points to the plot. The BL elements are so minimal, they could barely fill a paragraph.
The novel treats it as.. scifi.. scifi.. Oh, look, two dudes kissing.. anyways..
While I am an avid fan of Bl, I have not read one fanfic, so it’s interesting that people argue about realistic elements. Isn’t a fanfic suppose to be about unrealistic things? Either way I do not really get the point of slashing, or writing fanfics in general. I guess I’ve always seen it as something people have as a hobby. I still think it’s weird when I see Leouch and Suzaku having sex, I really do not see any BL overtones or undertones in the whole entire series.
I was also surprised about No.6 when it turned up in shounen ai category of BL forums. Was I even watching the same anime as these other people? I duno I watched No.6 cause I saw it was produced by Bones. After the kiss though, it was kinda begging to be slashed by bl fans though. Although I feel like this is the animators fault, cause in my opinion the anime started out awesome. Duno what happened to it, but I dropped it halfway and read the novel translations instead.
Btw I do not think this is totally out of BL atmosphere. I have tons of friends that are like you have a gay friend, oh it must be nice to go shopping with him etc. These are girls that have zero interest in BL. I think girls are just interested in homosexuals or something.
You said something about not understanding people watching shows for the homolust; now, I can’t speak for everyone, but those sorts of comments are probably 95% of the time a joke, and are simply an exaggeration for the humour of seriously watching a show for teh gay.
Having spent of good many years elbow deep in yaoi fandom (fanfic-related and otherwise), I know what you mean about the “false authenticity.” At the same time, I don’t really fault them for looking for some sort of realism because the alternative (insofar as the sex is concerned) is just as repetitive, only much more common. It’s a sort of elitism, I guess, in that it usually means you’ve been around for awhile.
As a gay man myself I’ve pretty much stopped worrying about the fetishization of homosexuality, because hey, more eye candy for me. It still kinda confuses me, why girls would like that sort of thing, but whatever. (Guys’ fascination with lesbians also confuses me, but that is a separate issue.)
I’ve given thought to the need for realistic characterization too, and I think it might be because of something I like to call “emotional porn”. To many, character interaction is more fulfilling than the buttsex, and the seme/uke stereotypes are quite shallow. Girls like to “have feelings” (having your heart skip a beat and all that shit), and it’s hard to have those with something you’ve already seen countless of times. I am at a loss about the need of medical terms in straight up porn though.
About “watching it for the homolust”, I guess I can’t really speak because I’ve picked up shows solely because of the lesbians. But I’m a girl who likes girls so it’s kind of different? I don’t know. But I like to think there aren’t -that- many girls who are so obsessed with yaoi and slash that it’s their entire life.
You’ve just made me yearn to write a thesis on this.
I feel that the problem inherently does lie with the newer fangirls that get themselves involved with the genre. They’re not too educated into what it ‘s all about. If let to progress any further beyond that, you do tend to get these younger generations taking it one step further by condemning the underlining notions of homosexuality, manipulating it to suit their very own criteria.
I’m not too sure how everyone else has gotten into BL or whether there was any ease of transition between them. When I got myself involved at 15, I told myself that I was studying BL mangas because I couldn’t draw males well. The very first manga I read was Yamano Ayane’s works. So her boys were pretty muscular. Very masculine distinction between her ukes and semes. Then later as I progress further, I learned to distinguish between what was “yaoi” and what many consider as “shounen-ai”. I don’t think there’s a real distinction about it in English terms as I consider that when someone uses the term BL, it literally includes yaoi AND shounen-ai.
But when I progressed through it, I started noticing how easily people were misreading the signs. You could just show a fangirl any anime such as : Bleach or Naruto; AND suddenly, they pop up a fanfiction or a doujin of the characters being completely fetishizes as gay man. I mean, okay… I’m totally cool with the fact that some people enjoy it as it is. However, with that said, doesn’t this inadvertently causes the problem that we’re facing right now? Because of the misconception and a glazed outlook that is provided by uncontrolled mediums, we begin to perceive all male characters as potential homosexualize beings. Hence, affects good animes like No. 6 and deteriorates it to a fantasized illusion because of the subculture that strips men subjugating them into the pre-conceptual illusion that has already been established.
I ADMIT IT I’m a fangirl who watches shows for teh gay. Or rather, I start watching a show for homolust and go from there. If I dislike the show for whatever reason (and I admit I have shit taste), no matter how much subtext I see, I will drop it. But usually if there are no dudes in a show, I’ll be hard-pressed to watch something in the first place.
For me, the appeal is not the outright gay but more the subtext in series that aren’t BL? I like ~dramatic male friendships~ and ~deep emotional bonds~ between dudes, and really, a lot of BL manga is more focused on sex or fluff or creepy dubcon between people who just met. I like the characters I ship to have a relationship that I can enjoy and find heart-warming even without having sex and then I ship a little. Even if I don’t gay it up and write fanfiction, I could probably write pages on how beautiful their friendship/loyalty/dependence is~*~* and shit like that. Honestly, I probably just fetishize male friendship instead of homosexuality (not sure if that’s much better, but eh).
Either way, I can still agree with a lot of your points. I remember when I first got into yaoi, and I was completely obsessed with it for sometime. I like to chalk it up to just being a 12 year old, but maybe a lot of fangirls are still new, stuck in that state of infinite awe where all gay seems shiny and new? The first time I learned about BL I could hardly believe it. “What is this?! Real gay? I don’t have to pretend and read fanfiction to get closure any longer!” But then as I read on, I realized that most of the stuff I liked about my homotps uh wasn’t there? Where was the beautiful friendship?! The transcending loyalty?? etc etc
Regardless, fetishizing real people has always squicked me. Whenever I see fangirls like going crazy over cosplayers pretending to be dudes making out, I always feel a little freaked out (but 3DPD, so).
GH, I’ve been following your blog since 00, so it’s only with the most sincere of feelings that I say:
You’re thinking about this WAY too fucking hard. Unclench.
Man, thanks brah, I dunno how I’d even function were it not for people like you telling me when I’m “thinking too hard.”
To tie in with what “meh” said above, a lot of the time when people ship BL for non-BL series it is because those shows have, basically, an actual plot, and actual characterizations.
A lot of the BL things I have seen pretty much have nothing going on outside the relationships: They’re all about who is dating who, who is fucking who, who wants to fuck who, and how far they have gotten. But I like stories to have, you know, an actual story. I like there to be things happening that are interesting in and of themself. The same goes for characters; in order to ship characters, I have to find them interesting. And the best way to make an interesting character is to have them do interesting things, have thoughts and feelings about the fictional world they are in. That’s another thing that a lot of BL fails at: So many characters don’t seem to have any thoughts or feelings outside the other men in their life.
You may be right when you say BL is like a sort of porn, with it’s own codes and tropes, but that’s exactly the problem with it: Not everyone likes porn. And porn is fake, and very obviously fake – it always feels staged. Even if you are just watching it to get off, staged fakeness is a buzzkill.
And I think the two issues tie together: People want their gay emotional porn, and find that the specific examples that are presented to them aren’t satisfying what they actually want, so they seek it out elsewhere. Whether that is fanfic, “more realistic” BL, or non-BL works that at least have other traits that appeal.
I’m surprised you find the fact people want some semblance of realism in their fantasy unexpected, because Jesus, that’s what most of fandom is these days, people bitching about how X fictional work was so unrealistic in scene Y. Fantasy works because of suspension of disbelief, and it often stops being fun when you get broken out of that belief. As we see more real life gay people in the media, the public perceptions of what gay people are like changes, which means the yaoi fangirls are going to have what real gay people are like. Some will stick with established BL works, because it hits their kinks, but some won’t be able to suspend disbelief; cue the “search for authenticity”, as they try to balance between what they know is true, and what gets them hot.
Well, the point I was trying to make about the “authenticity” thing is that it’s generally not terribly authentic and fundamentally (at least in my experience, as goes for everything else in the post) not about making the piece seem more realistic. But, then again I’m sure there are people who get turned on by reading medical terms and making sure their porn happens in the exact same prescribed sequence of sanctioned “authentic” events every time.
I’m guessing it’s close enough to authenticity for it not to make a reader cringe in embarrasment, because you know, that could happen. Not to mention with amateur writers, they probably want to go the “safe and tested” route when doing porn scenes. I am not someone who reads alot of gay porn or visits those communities so my viewpoint may be naive.
As for the “watching shows for homolust thing”…that kind of happens all the time in the anime community. People sit through boring/mediocre shows for the hot girls(most recently I see this with Guilty Crown) hot guys, yuri, THE TRAP, basically anything. They literally would not give a fuck if it did not cater to them. I’m certain that some shows have these aspects purely for the purpose of attracting people that are into these things. Anime “fetishizes” all types of romance, too(wish fulfillment fucking everywhere), so it doesn’t surprise me that it spills over into the fandoms.
How is BL it potentially problematic If I may ask? Is it the only aspect of anime/manga that you find to be problematic? I think the rampant sexism in anime is far more potentially problematic.
>How is BL it potentially problematic If I may ask?
Uh, I could probably write several books about things that are problematic with BL and I’m not any kind of expert on the subject. From all the (unacknowledged) rape, to the excessively heteronormative paradigm 99% of BL relationships fall into and so on.
>Is it the only aspect of anime/manga that you find to be problematic? I think the rampant sexism in anime is far more potentially problematic.
Of course it’s not. What did I say that even suggested that? Anime is rife with issues. Arguably a lot of the problematic areas in BL are directly related to rampant sexism among other things.
Ah, I see. The rape is a huge problem with the stories. As soon as it starts I usually just get the fuck out. Unfortunate that some mangaka can’t let the relationship progress without rape. Rape/attempted rape is used more than once in Penguindrum, how do you feel about that? I do wonder why it’s used in anime/manga without repercussions.
The fact that BL usually starts with two “straight” guys probably has something to do with how gays are viewed in Japanese society I think. I know many people irl who believe being gay is something straight guys just “feel” like doing one day.
I had assumed that since the last rant you posted was about some No.6 fangirls being silly/irrational with their gay shipping or something to that effect, my apologies.
I guess my issue with the rape in BL is less that it’s there’s rape in BL and more that it’s never acknowledged as such. Like, imo there’s nothing inherently wrong with a rape fantasy in porn, but in BL it’s generally just considered ~love~ and not rape. Like in the second episode of the new season of Sekai-ichi Hatsukoi, editor dude rapes his sort of boyfriend while he’s blackout drunk and no one’s like “hot damn that was rape.” Which, I guess is arguably not always what happens in real life either, but still. I feel like Penguindrum treats it more seriously (while also being irreverent about it, considering that’s sort of the overlying tone of the whole series-–serious stuff while funny things happen). And despite all the humor, I feel like most of the attempted rapes were appropriately horrifying and uncomfortable to watch––like, at no point are you thinking “this isn’t rape” or “this isn’t wrong.”
As for the second point, I think that’s definitely an aspect. Japan does seem to have an attitude of “gay” being a phase (so it’s sort of okay), but at the same time I think it’s probably got more to do with the fact that BL’s romantic fantasy. The whole straight-guy-turns-gay-for-one-dude-because-he-happens-to-fall-for-him is sort of the epitome of the pure love ideal (overcoming one’s sexuality for love), which seems to be the basis of most of the romance genre in Japan in particular (goes way back to Genji–-in fact, I’d argue that everything that’s fucked up about the loli/moe “genres” can be traced waaay back to motherfucking (literally! sorta) Genji). I think that’s partly why the trap genre’s taken off so much in the male community too (forbidden fruit + pure love, except in this case the sex in and of itself is an expression of the purity of the love––since the straight guy is willing to compromise his sexuality for the person he loves, and the only way to do that is sex)
If you are getting medical terms and the exact same sequence of things, then I’d say you need to find better fanfic. Because there’s certainly a lot more diversity out there if you look around (especially at more experienced writers).
Maybe you’re just not finding the good stuff? That said, the rote by-the-book cliches bother me less than the rapeyness of a lot of published yaoi and doujinshi.
In my experience the vast majority of fanfic employs shit like this and that’s kind of the point. I’m not whining because I can’t find “good fanfic,” I was trying to make a point about a phenomenon within the community. I’m not trying to argue that it’s bad and other tactics are good, but to analyze it (or at least ask the question, why?).
Again, it’s not really about the cliches themselves but the pretense surrounding them.
The vast majority of all fanfic is shit. Why is girls liking specific BL cliches need to be questioned and examined, but guys who fetishizing their perfect virginal 2D waifus and then rabidly turn on them as sluts if they have ever had a boyfriend seen as something unquestionably normal?
Of course there are issues with BL, but why is it that whenever girls do something that demonstrates interest in sexuality and attempting to define it in their own terms, it is only ever that which gets nitpicked and criticized to death, but the equally fucked up (and often even more ) sexual politics of what guys like and do is accepted and ignored?
It just reiterates the idea that female sexuality is a strange alien thing that needs to be studied, unlike “normal” male sexuality.
>Why is girls liking specific BL cliches need to be questioned and examined, but guys who fetishizing their perfect virginal 2D waifus and then rabidly turn on them as sluts if they have ever had a boyfriend seen as something unquestionably normal?
ALL of this shit deserves to be questioned. At which point did I say (or even imply for that matter) that fanboy interaction with the same material was normal/healthy/unproblematic? (The answer is nowhere!) The fanboy issue gets discussed fucking everywhere and quite prominently at that. The fact that fangirl issues are pretty much wholesale overlooked is a problem in and of itself.
But no, let’s not talk about how some people in the fangirl arena take shit too far into marginalizing an already marginalized group while pretending to be allies/advocates for that same group because sexism still exists (’cause The Patriarchy totally doesn’t hurt anyone but ladies, amirite). I mean seriously, how dare I talk about issues within a community I’m ostensibly a part of. Because, you know, talking about the fucked up aspects of it might make us look bad.
HEY ITS ME AGAIN I just wanted to throw in another two cents for a total of 0.04$. Of course, I’m only one person, so I doubt my thought process reflects the majority of fangirl thought, but ~preparation~ and whatnot, even if it is inauthentic, makes me able to get into the fantasy more? Otherwise when it’s Guy A’s “first time” and Guy B shoves his unlubed dick up Guy A’s butt, all I can think is OW and for the rest of the sex scene all I can think about is how much that must hurt or that Guy B must be a masochist. I know that a lot of people have trouble delving into a piece of writing when there are things that don’t agree with them. Sure, I guess since it’s fantasy, I should just assume he has a really loose asshole or leaks lube out of his butt and just ~enjoy it~, but having to do that makes it not nearly as sexy to me.
THAT SAID I AM A LONG TIME BL FANFIC WRITER SO I AM PARANOID THAT I FALL INTO THIS PATTERN. but no one reads my stuff so
I am totally with you. I like to have at least vague sexual realism because when I think dry butt sex, I end up with visions of rectal tearing, having your shit flipped inside-out, and entirely too much blood. Not, imo, remotely erotic. Too little realism ruins the fantasy.
I’m not terribly well-versed academically on the topic (I’ve read the collection of essays on BL mentioned above though – interesting book!) but as a more active member of the fujoshi community, I have to say the fandom in Japan is pretty much mum on the topic of “gay” or “authentic gay” because one universal phrase pervades it all, which it “BL is fantasy”. Things aren’t expected to be realistic, and in fact things aren’t supposed to be. That’s what makes BL BL. Everyone sort of dismisses the lack of lube etc. kind of with a wry smile.
Your post on the English fandom has enlightened me quite a bit and I have to say it’s definitely not as I remember it when I was 13 and getting into the fandom. The self-righteousness is kind of disturbing.
I’ve perused academic journals in Japanese and they have quite a bit of material on BL and fujoshi fandom but only in Japan. I think it would be interesting to study the phenomenon in the English fandom… the picture seems very different over here. Anyhoo, sorry for the long comment that fails to really say anything. Just letting you know I found your post very intriguing! More people need to be able to look at fandom objectively in this way, I think.
Yeah, that’s basically the impression I’d gotten from reading Japanese produced BL, but I hadn’t really interacted with the fujoshi community too much, so thanks for the info. I really need to track down that book, lol.
I don’t want to give the impression that this phenomenon encompasses ALL of the English-speaking BL fandom, but in my experience it’s a sizeable and vocal segment. Also worth noting that this is occurring pretty much exclusively on the fan side of things (not being much of a professional market for US-produced stuff like this) in discussion and fanfic (doujinshi’s still not very big over here). It seems like a reactionary movement, possibly stemming in part from the tendency for English-speaking BL fans to align themselves with the LBGT community on some level (I suspect this doesn’t happen in Japan since BL and actual gay people seem to be conceptually distinct entities there). I think I probably came off as a bit too judgmental in my post, but as much as I dislike some aspects of this element of the English speaking BL community, I think their hearts are in the right place (like, the desire for authenticity isn’t inherently bad at all), but there’s a lack of critical discourse on the topic. Naturally it doesn’t apply to everyone in the community, but of the people I’ve known personally, most of them don’t take a terribly critical look at their “work” and they get very upset if you even dare to point out the absurdity of a woman (who’s never even seen a dude naked––again, not virgin-shaming just trying to illustrate a clear lack of direct personal experience with male bodies here) lecturing people about the intricacies of dude-on-dude buttsex––because, I mean, come on even if everything she’s saying is technically correct it’s still pretty silly.
I guess it’s like, a lot of people take their stuff very seriously, but at the same time refuse examine it “seriously”?
Anyway, sorry for the long and sort of tangential response.
Haha, I guess it’s sort of like “serious” but serious in the wrong direction… I mean, if I hadn’t gone to post-secondary I probably wouldn’t have been able to sort out what arguments are critically sound as opposed to not (as in one’s credibility over another’s to discuss ‘anatomical accuracy’ and whatnot).
I do agree that aligning BL with “real gays” and somehow representative of the LGBT community is a problem too. Thanks for the reply :)
Uhm, I´m kind of shy now, after all I´m a fangirl, you made me feel ashamed XD! But before I say anything else I want to thank you from the bottom of my stupid heart, because I´m so glad for this translation, I truly deeply, very much apreciate it! It must be hard work, and I thank you and wish you luck(?) with your translations. On the whole fangirl thing, you have offended me! We totally do not have a warped view on male/male relationships! Seme and uke are perfectly resaonable terms, and who am I kidding? If understood your complaint correctly I think, you have a point. Being a lonely fangirl who doesn´t join fandoms/communities/ or any other thing, I truly don´t know how the rest act, but I believe that one can be a fangirl, and fangirl with other fangirls, in strictly fangirling locations, not only that, but it was always clear to me that the anime/manga BL has nothing to do with actual homosexuality, at least based on my friend (who´s inclined to have an atraction to males) things are nothing like in an Yaoi/Shonen-ai gig. And that brings me to what mimizu said earlier, about BL being fantasy, it´s true, in fact I didn´t know fangirls were taking things so far!!! >_< Gosh,I´m stupid, I just liked you so much I wanted to comment….6_6
Keep up the good work btw!! Thanks for it(again)XD
Just my thoughts… If you ask me why I like BL (as in fictional kind), it is probably because of the guys themselves (as in their looks) and cause I am tired of seeing a lot of annoying and weak girls, some girl grabbing another girl’s boobs (and enjoying it?), a guy wanting to grab a girl’s boob, flying boobs, panty shots, loli etc…
I guess some people are unable to distinguish reality and fictional. I don’t really care about the seme/uke thing in BL. But I guess it can’t be help probably because it has had ALWAYS been like that for fictional. (: If they don’t want seme/uke then or feminine uke, go and read bara. :3
Guys can’t stand seeing their ‘species’ getting butt-rape or even making love with one another so that is why you can see many rude male otaku out there. BUT! how about hentai? Do they think females enjoy getting rape? OF course not.
But then, you have the case of preference. Maybe some guys don’t mind liking another guy, or some girls enjoy getting it on. And it is the same like watching some anime with ‘BL-tones’ or ‘Yuri-moment’. If we are talking about anime that doesn’t have BL or Yuri in the genre, those moments are just fan-service. That is, they are to please the fans. The producers know that they can’t please every single fans so the fans have to accept the fact that the producers themselves CANNOT please every single one of them and so, they either take the undertones or leave it.
In the first place, I like anime/BL for the story AND of course the appeal of the characters. :D
I feel like I am not answering any questions but I just feel like letting this out. I would like to continue more but I should stop now. lol. I don’t want to look like I am raging or arguing. XD In fact I have no idea what is my point or what I am talking about anyway. (Too out of point) *hides behind a pillar*
Human’s thoughts are so complicated. lol! And oh, I love your blog! Thanks for everything here~ *runs away*
After reading your thoughts and some of the comments, I would like to answer your question at the end, the one involving ““I’m only watching this show for the homolust” phenomenon”. I can’t speak for most of the fan community but I’m very experience when it comes to bias choices regarding anime. I used to be one of those fangirls who would reject anything that is remotely BL, but I switch over to rejecting shoujo pretty fast. My experience that caused this was the distinct lack of good fanfics. After finishing an anime, I usually go through an obsessed phase where I scour the internet for fanfics or manifestos of that particular fandom. In shoujo anime, the romantic relationships are already built and overused. Anime like Inuyasha and Sailor Moon constantly uses ,mechanisms like tsudere couples (verbal abuse from either partners but not meaning it), maiden in distress, jealousy, reckless behavior, one second BAMF before succumbing back to maiden in distress, and THE kiss. There’s only so many time a person can reuse a plot device in fandom that was already used in the anime.
Shounen anime, on the other hand, usually one dealt with one type of relationship: friendship with the occasional rivalry. The romantic interest takes the back door when it come to these type of anime. I do often want to cry sexism when I see this, but it goes against friendship fun time, so I let those slide often enough. The goal of the sports anime is to win the championship of so and so district, then the world! In the fighting anime, it’s defeat the enemy that’s trying to take over the world! Then it’s the end of the anime, and the protagonist won or was defeated. why does it feel so unsatisfying? The distinct lack of romantic feelings in the anime produces an urge in fans to seek out a balance hence fanfic/fanarts. Example: Katekyou Hitman Reborn, Eyeshield 21, Naruto, Ookiku Furibatte,etc.
What I mention above was just a motive as to why a fangirl would start to look for homosexual subtext in anime. Fanfiction is a major component in what anime I choose to watch. Despite the sheer numbers of BL fanfics, there are also massive amount of really quality fanfics in slash couple fandom. I find more quality fics in Naruto/Sasuke then Naruto/Sakura. Similar patterns could be found in Harry Potter, Tiger&Bunny, Sherlock (TV), Sherlock Holmes (movies/novels), Final Fantasy (all of them), Kingdom Hearts, Hawaii 50, Star Trek, Bleach, etc. I know I listed a bunch of other fandoms besides anime. I just want to show that it spreads everywhere. It gets addicting once you read a really good fanifc. Fanfics are like advertisements, the better they are the more you look into the fandom for more.
Basically, people become bias to anime with homo overtones because it creates a better fan base and also allows building of relationships even if there is a main heterosexual coupling (ex: Tsubasa).
This is the first I ever wrote to a person on a blog, so I am deeply sorry if I cross the invisible line of disapproval. Hopefully I didn’t go too off topic.
I am very sorry for my grammar mistakes.
Your post does have a few points worth considering. I’d like to see you extrapolate upon that angle of patriarchy that you only mentioned in passing.
I’ve noticed that, in the slash communities, fangirls continually try to masquerade their porn materials as emotional “shipping”. These girls usually choose 2 male characters on a TV show who have displayed a kind of bond and turn them into a pairing by writing/drawing/concocting homosexual fantasies. This tendency no longer limits to the fictional realm but has extended to celebrities (Real People Fics). It seems as though fangirls cannot help thinking that any 2 males who like each other as human beings must be having sex or wanting to have sex with each other (even if they’re brothers.)
This pattern betrays a deeply pathological idea that love must result in sex (if 2 people love each other then they must want to have sex with each other, hotter sex means better love, and so forth.) It doesn’t apply to the male population nearly as much as it does to the female one. How many works of fictions have lauded the power of brotherhood? What about father and son relationship? In contrast, these works almost exclusively explore female emotions in relation to male love interests. Fangirls might have projected their subconscious belief that a girl can only expect “true love” from one of her sexual interests onto any relationship between 2 males that go beyond formal. This sort of projection reminds me of the efforts to objectify males in retaliation to the ubiquitous objectification of females in the sense that it conflates equality with equally demeaning practices. Since the status quo objectifies women and denies us platonic yet emotionally profound bonds, fangirls cannot see what’s fundamentally wrong with objectifying human beings or the denial of platonic bonds.
I wrote this pretty quickly in reaction to what you wrote, it’s mostly rambling but it gets out my thoughts down. I realize some things may have not been meant on your behalf but I’m just saying.
How can you expect the so-called detractors to not criticize how BL is conceived. I’m sorry, some that like male/male so they can see two guys at it not a rapist and a she-man. They can read BL manga for that, I personally don’t want to see every fandom reduced to such stereotypes that are mostly derived from another cultural bubble.
It’s obvious that the criticism shouldn’t go ‘too far’ cos (besides tastes are tastes) it’s one of the most popular Japanese genres of the kind, but but there is plenty of reason why other sides of the fandom should have their own voice, especially if it clearly goes against everything the characters are like. It looks like you’re treating Yaoi like a label for all male/male fictional pairings in anime and it’s pretty ridiculous. Fandoms can grow out of such blatant onesidedness. There is room for change.The terms ‘in character’ and ‘out of character’ exist for a reason, and you mostly limited yourself to discussing the sexual technicalities to prove your point (?), I don’t see how that is supposed to work.
Male gay relationships aren’t some other thing from planet Mars. It’s just as easy to say you can’t do such and such for heterosexual relationships if you haven’t had multiple relationships and near-death experiences for troo luv. After all, what do you know without a life-time of verification? How come we’re not debating authenticity or our knowledge of sex there…oh cos heterosexuality isn’t idealized while homosexuality in fandom is clearly is big time right? What a joke – just admit there’s a large margin of ignorance when it comes to such things cos homosexuality isn’t as accepted or explored by the average individual while growing up. What I’m trying to say that it’s like you are stripping homosexuality from the category someone can relate to, in this case a woman.
And this is the worst of all, that you seem to not remotely realize why so many girls can be taken over by it, but let it be known that the answer is hardly a simple one. To the very least, potential of exploration is what attracts fans, especially if it fills the main requirement that is ‘unresolved tension’ (it’s what breeds pairings best, regardless of kind). Authenticity is just a big word you’re trying to use as if it was any different from any sort of mental construction involving romance. Homosexuality hasn’t got as big of a slice when it comes to the big cake called Mainstream Entertainment so you can hardly blame a fan or two that’s happy there’s material of the non-yaoi genre that has some legitimate homosexual suggestions between the characters, when a good number of these people are, without any justification, receiving ad hominem arguments like how low their IQ or sexually perverted they should be for liking a pairing on something (especially non-yaoi). Their enthusiasm for something they most likely have been brought up to not consider or even shun, suddenly reveals itself to be many things, such as it is for some Japanese women, that the Yaoi genre is primarily directed, of sexual liberation. It seems to be you have not even researched the topic, but just here and there. Obviously if you don’t really try to understand the fandom and why it’s the way it is under multiple aspects, you’re going to write stuff as limited as this (no offence, you sound very smart actually).
So basically this whole homosexuality and the idealization as some kind of farce pretty much baffles me. I don’t see how fetishization does anything to support the theory that they are put on some pedestal the mere human mind cannot comprehend. Plato, greatest philosopher that impacted the Western concept of love, idealized male homosexuality and I don’t see why some female can’t ‘authentically’ (????) do the same just cos oh they don’t have a penis or outright manifest homosexual tendencies. [Random fact: It has been suggested in studies that the female brain is better at relating to acts between 2 humans despite of their orientation:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/06/030613075252.htm
You might find it interesting that there's a relevant presence of lesbians in the yaoi fandom (they can often be 'cosplayer self-inserts' from what I've seen).] I don’t even understand your definition of authenticity as a ‘note’ on the yaoi fandom honestly, there are shallow reasons for liking anything that can be sexualized, and the desires of the women interested in yaoi (in whatever extent) are not less real.
The mere sexuality of it does not make it a stranger thing in itself because it isn’t as elaborated upon (not that you were saying that, but your questioning the heavens says enough) on a level of idealization. I’d really like to make it clear that crack pairings in general be idealized despite being a lot of nothing and it’s hardly exclusive to yaoi. (Please see more of fandom for perfect examples of utter though-cleverly-veiled-by-heteronormativity delusion.)
Let me break this down, on why, for example, you can idealize a homosexual relationship in general
1) You cannot procreate with someone with same sex. so,
2) it’s an attraction that has no explicit social advantage besides having your significant other and banging the gender you’re attracted to basically (if accepted, of course, more satisfaction for you, but this fact can remain as you came to the world via a mother and father, likely raised with the ideal of a family)
3) and, unless you discriminate it as some sort of narcissism, is an extremely inconvenient preference or eventual choice if you grew up in a heteronormative manner, for the risk of being perceived differently or being turned down is high, therefore
4) to decide, once you reach full terms with your sexuality, ‘I might not have children someday, or a traditional wedding, or an open relationship I can announce to anyone and experience in everyday life/media as reference’ that’s hard.
–and perfect fanfic material!!! The drama, the angst, the possibilities!!
..cos you can also break all those rules, all the conventional rules you can imagine. But the basis for idealization is the same – homosexual love can be very painful, with its lack of effective models that adapt to different realities in society. The fact there are these fans seeing potential (sometimes in very strange places) hardly phases me, cos maybe they are looking for something more to work with than a preconceived relationship, while relying (when possible) heavily on canon, and I don’t see how that makes it less authentic, any less close, to what a woman can relate to or understand. On the other hand, there are those fans limited to a selected few, that can find things aren’t too stereotypical or ‘mushy’ (from a female POV, she can get a lot of sappy [or even abusive!] stuff directed at her in media) so they really enjoy the interaction of equality and affection between two males (doesn’t hurt if they’re attractive). Well I think I’ve made myself relatively clear hopefully. Have a nice day.
I read through all of this and found it to be an extremely fascinating topic of discussion. I myself have transitioned from being one of the ‘crazy fangirls’ who was straight/bi-curious, but confusingly obsessed over anything homoerotic, into a person of genderqueer identity with a penchant for pairings in general, whether hetero/homo/transgender/etc. Or in other words, it’s gone from focusing completely on the smut to focusing on the characters and what their identities might mean to them (this, in fact, helped me to understand more about my own personal means of identity). Which I think is an immensely important step for fangirls that is sometimes not made, because I do agree that getting stuck for too long on the sex aspect alone is dangerous and starts personifying even real people as what they can/can’t do with their bodies. What about the character’s presentation? What of their personality, passions and interactions with others? When these other elements are added in, even in a fanfiction, it makes a brilliant piece of work, without needing to be focused on the legitimacy in terminology or relationship roles, so on.
This is not to say that there’s anything wrong with only enjoying homoerotic anything, because everyone is different and enjoys different things and really there’s no one right way to like something. You like what you like, however you want. The part that seems to typically become irritating to those around them (other fangirls, bystanders, fanboys, convention guests, etc), is when their enjoyment imposes unrealistic standards on surrounding people/communities. For example, if someone ships Holmes and Watson from the BBC show Sherlock, and happens to meet both the actors at a press conference, the irritating/dangerous thing to do that many fangirls make a jump for, would be to ask them what they thought about that pairing, if they could kiss or do some improvised lines back and forth to create a ‘super kawaii gay banter’. Because god forbid if they disagree and enjoy the canonical relationship these two men have, they’d be left in a terribly awkward situation of not only declining the requests, but then trying to explain themselves to millions of fans. And for what? They shouldn’t have to. This is almost as dangerous as fans growing angered/jealous over actors personal lives, like their girl/boyfriends, because ‘they’re mine, no one can have them!’. So, so not good.
This mostly happens in the anime community, but it’s being carried over into all kinds of fandoms, like comics, movies, TV shows…. It’s not all bad news, though. In fact, I really do wish that fandoms were more welcoming to these fangirls because all it takes is a moment to explain to them what else they could be looking for, what more depth this is to love about these characters, so on, instead of attacking them. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone is ignorant about something at some point in their lives, something that needs explanation and thusly comprehension; that’s a huge part of being human, just as much as helping our fellow fan is. Some of these fans are very, very young and don’t know any better. Maybe they don’t know where to research all of this (to be fair, you can’t just say ‘google it’ because we all know the pile of steaming shit that google can occasionally hand to you for some searches; that’s the downside of the internet being so freakin’ VAST). Take a second, share some insight with other fans. If they don’t want to hear it, well, at least you’ve tried. If they take your suggestions into consideration, fabulous! You’ve helped someone unlock a whole new epic of ‘feels’, while teaching them some good old fashioned sociology/psychology.
I also apologize for how many times I used ‘etc’ in this comment…..
:)